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  • Thinker

    Read the GCR manuscript under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That is how we are to read scripture, so is R. Floyd equating the GCR report to scripture?

    • http://www.isalt.org stldad

      Everything we do should be done under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Your inference isn’t logical at all, nor does anything Dr. Floyd says come anywhere near this. It’s okay to disagree with his position, but it’s not okay to imply heresy.

    • T K W

      We are, as Christians, suppose to do and read everything under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I grew up in a denomination that would never encourage the people to read their Bible, much less documents the Church has written, on their own under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They would simply tell the “common folk” what to believe. How dangerous is that? If you or I have questions, we can read it for ourselves. We as Christians have the Holy Spirit to guide us. We can know if we are being guided by men who truly want to do the will of God. How refreshing and transparent of Mr. Floyd to invite and encourage that! I respect your concerns, but please think about it.

  • http://brenthobbs.com/ Brent H.

    Good interview by Doug Baker. He didn’t pull any punches, definitely asked some tough questions. I felt like I was getting some talking points more than clear answers at a few points, but not because there aren’t good answers to those questions. Floyd is definitely more diplomatic in his answers than some task force members I’ve seen (B21 panel at Southeastern a good example of more straight talk than diplomacy). I think there’s a time for both – though diplomacy sometimes obscures the urgency of the situation.

  • http://simpsonfamilyokc.com Roger K. Simpson

    This is an excellent interview.

    The texture of the interview would have been quite different if Doug would have asked the exact same questions to a younger leader in the SBC, such as J.D. Greear or Jon Akin.

    For me as a layman — who is trying to pay attention the whole dynamic giving rise to the GCRTF — the most revealing aspect of my whole time of discovery was the five minutes that JD spoke at the Chapel in Wake Forest.

    As Howard Cossell would say: JD, “Tells it like it is. . . ”

    Whether we like it or not the train has left the station. What future does the SBC have if those who will be our leaders decide to setup ad-hoc structures on their own because old SBC mechanisms (by common consent) are not working?

    My bottom line: I don’t support the structural ideas in the TF’s report necessarily as “best”. I don’t know if they are “best” or not. I don’t have any instrumentation to gauge this. I can’t design any dual blind study and then re-wind it to see if the TF’s structural recommendations are in fact better than other sets of recommendations.
    By the time that analysis could be done it would be too late to mean anything. The fact is that the SBC is “hostage” to its future leaders and the die is cast. If these leaders are taking us in the wrong direction then there is no hope for the SBC as a framework to catalyze autonomous churches to cooperate for the sake of the Gospel.

    This is tough for me to say this as an engineer who is ostensibly analytic in making decisions. But I’ve come to a radical conclusion in the last several weeks. I don’t support the TF’s recommendations because of any rational analysis or because of the merits of the proposals. Instead I support it because there is no viable alternative and the TF has a vision than can work. It can energize the whole SBC — from the agency heads to the rank and file.

    It is this or nothing.

    Roger K. Simpson Oklahoma City OK

  • Jonathan McLain

    Roger,
    In light of what you said, “What will energize the SBC rank and file and so forth?” I’m not energized and I don’t support the TF’s recommendations.

    Jon

  • http://www.igniteus.net Tom Fillinger

    The RESURGENCE must be in correcting the Theological focus of the SBC. When we do this the $$ (which is what I hear about MOST). This is not about $$. We have a very flawed Doctirne of Soteriology. We have pews full of unregenerate people – – 16.3 million 6.3 million on our best day. We cannot locate even 10% of those we baptize on year after their baptism. If we cannot find them we most certainly are not seeing them discipled.

    We must focus on measureable Transformation of people who profess faith. No Transformation = No Regeneration. Address this with compassion and genuine accountability at EVERY LEVEL and the chnage will be obvious.

    We need real accountability at every level. When ‘programs’ suck millions of $$ each year with little or no objective Transformation in the lives of the people sitting in the midst of those ‘programs’ we need to stop the flow of human resources and fiscal resources to unproductive initiatives. They abound.

    I pray that this focus is addressed and that changes are implemented with accountability.

  • http://www.facebook.com/elijahelkins Elijah Elkins

    I love you as a brother or sister in Christ ‘Thinker,’ but that was not a very well thought out comment. We should read everything like that. Our entire lives are to be ones guided by the Holy Spirit. Ronnie Floyd and the rest of the GCRTF has worked really hard and spent much time in prayer to serve the SBC in this way. I think we need to read this and hit our knees to see what the LORD would have us do. I believe they’re spot on with pretty much everything. We must penetrate the lostness with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That’s just the way it is. God is going to have His will regardless. The SBC will either need to get on board or get out of the way. It also will need to work with younger leaders or the SBC will continue in it’s continued weakening sickness until it eventually dies… Also, thank you brother Roger Simpson. Great comments and conclusion… God bless.

  • http://www.facebook.com/elijahelkins Elijah Elkins

    Jerry Rankin gets it. I beg all Southern Baptists to watch this short 5 min video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eGrVN0_ugY&feature=player_embedded

  • http://simpsonfamilyokc.com Roger K. Simpson

    Jonathan:

    You asked me how the TF’s recommendations might energize the SBC.

    I’m not a prophet (or the son of a prophet) so I can’t predict with certainty that (a) the TF report will pass and/or (b) if passed that it will turn around this battleship.

    Regardless of the TF, and regardless of what the TF does or doesn’t do, the problem is that we have significant “camps” in the SBC as it relates to the mechanism of funding our operations [shorthand for this polarization is "CP" vs. "celebrating GC giving']. The TF didn’t invent this situation but they have kicked up dust by bringing up stuff which has been smoldering just beneath the surface for the last decade.

    The reason I’ve come around to supporting the TF, is because I believe it is the best possible compromise that will get the job done to “reach lostness in North America” given the real word constraints of meshing the views of various stakeholders. At a high level, this is my view of what I think the TF is trying to do. In so many words they are saying, “We acknowledge that some of you have different modalities for supporting and/or implementing church planting and/or missionary work and/or evangelism. We challenge you to notch up your involvement in the Great Commission by giving more or doing more. You decide how you want to participate. Outsource the work via the CP, Lottie Moon, and Annie Armstrong or do things yourself — in cooperation with other SBC churches or entities.”

    I believe both leaders and people are energized by vision. I think events will transpire in the next ten years such that arguing about “cooperative agreements”, “CP vs. GCR giving”, and “the 51% solution”, are neither desirable nor necessary. I’m an eternal optimist.

    The size of the pie can grow — in fact it must grow. If it doesn’t, then arcane funding arguments are not going to mean much. If it does, then arcane funding arguments won’t be needed.

    I know this is weird but as time passes I’ve grown more and more agnostic regarding the structural changes that the TF recommends. I don’t think anyone, on either side, can win the arguments that are on the table. So we might as well agree to disagree and go to work.

    Roger K. Simpson Oklahoma City OK

  • Dirk

    Thinker says:
    May 9, 2010 at 2:20 pm
    “Read the GCR manuscript under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That is how we are to read scripture, so is R. Floyd equating the GCR report to scripture?”

    I think you are looking into the comment a bit to much. And I doubt many would truly belive thats what Dr. Floyd was saying. The GCR has had its controversy, by SB of all rank. Many have supported it as well. I think what Dr. Floyd was saying was read the report for yourself and by doing so ask God to speak to you personally about whether this is the right thing for the SBC. And whether it will advance the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Which I do think the best thing Southern Baptist can do is read the report for themselves. Dont listen to a SBC Convention Executive that will lose money for his or her most likely already bloated convention infrastructure where that money should already be used for reaching the lost. I think it comes done to what our goal/mission is. Have nice convention buildings, beautiful expensive churches. Or to reach a dying world headed for hell, without Christ?

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  • Gayle

    I have four children 21, 17, 13 and 10 years old. Our missions need to get into the public school system. before and after school care especially for children who both parents are working, or single parents. I pick up and drop off a few children when I pick up and drop off my own children . I always pray for them and their families before they get out. For their personal safety, spiritual growth and openess to Christ. There are young men who have no fathers and are getting involved with gangs for the support they offer. They finally belong..!!!!!!!!!! They need our help…Our young men and women are in trouble. They feel their facing all life on their own and no reallly really cares. So my prayers are with you… I have been in tears over these young people iin our middle and high schools. Their needs are not being met. Peace be with you.

  • http://www.jfokc.com Ryan Abernathy

    Gayle-
    I think your comment is right on. Instead of abandoning public schools as some have advocated at the SBC the past several years, we should be infiltrating them. What can be accomplished by committed Christians in a public school setting is nothing short of miraculous. We need to focus on grounding our believing young people in the faith so they can srve as front line missionaries in the hallways AND challenging our adults to serve as tutors, room mothers, teacher assistants, volunteers, and donors to help the schools with the goal being teachers and administrators won to the faith through the service actions of the church. My prayer is more churches will buy into this type of missions strategy and flee screaming from the “abandon the schools” philosophy.

  • Gary Capshaw

    Why the schools? What’s wrong with reaching children where we’re SUPPOSED to be reaching them…at home and in our churches. Never forget that the Bible places the ulitmate responsibility for the spiritual development of our children squarely on the shoulders of Dad. Not Mom, not Grandpa, not the preacher and surely not the teachers in our public schools.

    Whenever I hear someone advocating the “Chrisitianizing” of our schools, I have two immediate thoughts:

    1. That by opening the doors for us, we also open the door for other faiths to enter the schools too and who among us would want our children or grandchildren sitting through a Muslim-inspired class or saying a morning prayer to Gaia?

    2. That such a thing represents nothing more than a shirking of our own responsibilities, of trying to task someone else with the job we’re supposed to be doing ourselves. It’s the ultimate irresponsibility, but it’s easier than teaching the young about Christ person to person.

  • http://www.jfokc.com Ryan Abernathy

    Gary:
    What part of my comment or Gayle’s comment said ANYTHING about “Christianizing” schools? We are not talking about a Christian takeover of public education, but a Biblical approach to evangelism and discipleship: being light in a dark world. The idea that people are supposed to reach a lost and dying world by staying at home and going to church, which you seem to advocate in your comment, is not only foolish but it flies in the face of the past prayer of our Savior in the Garden. Jesus prayed: “15I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.” John 17:15-19 (ESV)

    Further, I do not understand in any way why you would think that ANYONE in this thread is advocating the school system as a viable source for Christian discipleship. No one is suggesting that. I agree with you that Dad has a huge role in that discipleship process, but I would include other believers as partners in that process- including mom, grandpa, the pastor, the bible study teacher. Discipleship in Scripture seems to be a group effort- with the immediate family playing the lead role buttressed by the surrounding Christian community.

    • Chad Kaminski

      I’m with you Ryan. I disagree with Gary fundementally, yet I can sympathize with some of his thoughts to a degree. I don’t relish the thought of my kids being in a classroom influenced by false religion, but the truth is that I do wield great power in equipping my children to discern truth from error (and I pray God sees me faithful). Not to mention that the testing of their faith in a world that is hostile to Christianity is a very biblical process, and will happen sooner or later. And I may venture to say that the sooner they experience the world the way it is, the less chance of them becoming disillusioned with their Christian mission later in life. Maybe. And if opening the door for Christianity in the schools opens the door for false religions, then so be it. If the students are lost, then they are lost. Therefore we must go after them regardless of what the enemy tries to do to stop us. Of course I could be wrong, but this is my present position, respectfully.

  • Gary Capshaw

    Ryan:

    Perhaps it was comments like this which led me to “misunderstand:”

    “Our missions need to get into the public school system.”

    “I think your comment is right on. Instead of abandoning public schools as some have advocated at the SBC the past several years, we should be infiltrating them”

    How could a deliberate infiltration of the school system NOT be trying to Christianize the schools?

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